Cat-killing bill may be stalled

On December 2, 2007, dave wrote:

why is it everytime a animal seems to be troublesoom, the first idea out is lets just kill it off. sometimes people with brain dead ideas ought to just keep them to there selves. rep. ron kind isnt so kind, but when reelection comes up, that will be solved. birdman smith wants to save the birds at the extent of killing the cats. smart move birdman,didnt you hear of the neuter program to re-enter the wild cat back into the wild, it works, i seen it work. i wonder how birdman would react when its the birds turn to be controlled, i bet hell be chirping a differnt song. spay and nueter programs have a proven record to work. so next time someone has a brain dead idea to control wildlife, do us all a favor and keep it to yourself. theres no need to kill one animal to save another.

On December 3, 2007, Jay wrote:

Dave- you seem to be a little confused as to what “wildlife” is. A feral cat running around in a wildlife refuge killing every native small mammal and bird it comes across is not natural. The domestic cat is actually native to Africa. And why on earth would a nuetered cat kill less native fauna? Get your facts straight before you speak ignorantly. Cat control is necessary to protect animals that are native, and some are endangered.

[Blog editors’ note: Dave’s not confused; killing cats isn’t an answer to anything sensible. Hunting and trapping is allowed at most National Wildlife Refuges with the blessing of these bureaucratic managers.]

On December 4, 2007, bek wrote:

it’s absolutely insane to kill feral cats as a means of protecting other animals when they could be safely captured instead. i understand that the cats are having a negative effect on the wildlife, but if you think killing creatures is the best solution to an animal that is harming an area then maybe you ought to consider what role humans have played in the world and decide if it’s still fair. we’ve done much worse than those cats ever would and they only do it out of instinct to survive…humans do it because they can.

On December 4, 2007, barbara wrote:

Incorporating a previous comment about animals natural to an environment. THis has nothing to do with this issue. Humans have transported everything that was natural in its natural habitats all over the world so cut the nonsense. Sounds like a silly comment from a Nimrod mentality hunter. The issue is these poor catsas well as other animals in a defenseless situation not something that they put themselves into. Once again the irresponsible human who initially promised to care for a cat as a family pet failed big time. It is sad that Humans who are just a little higher on the food chain have made the most insidious excuses for their irresponsible actions. Time for accountabilty. (ex: Why is there global warming?? Because some cat or animal pooped the in the wrong area? NO silly HUMANS once again acting irresponsibly.) Humans cause global problems and need to take Responsible actions and NOT kill every living creature because the Human caused the imbalance in the ECO systems!! GET real People and rethink what you are going to comment on in the future. So get the facts and most of all realize where the source of the problems are not the symptoms. That is why this earth is in so much trouble. It’s with people not the animals. We have invaded their natural territories and history has attested to that!! Coexisting is unfortunately not in the Human vocabulary.. Killing is not the answer..

On December 4, 2007, Rene wrote:

Birds and all other wildlife are suffering more from encroachment from humans than any other factor. Pesticides, urban sprawl, etc., etc. Blaming feral cats for a drop in bird population is absurd and irresponsible.

On December 5, 2007, Barbara wrote:

Destroying and killing IS NOT the answer PERIOD.. and by making such statements it shows the deplorable condition that society has reduced itself to. Where is the intelligence and especially COMPASSION in society?? If thats the case apply what you stated to solve the poplualtion explosion of HUMANS and their destructive warlike, disrespectful behavior and you and your family can be the first to go. People if they want to and are not swayed by the dollar can come up with ways of helping the feral cats and other animals. AGAIN, Violence and death are not the solution… The Trap and release program works and there perhaps can be modifications. There should be sanctuarys set up to allow the ferals to live out their lives safely and happy. There are people that have massive amounts of land that they are not using. Programs can be set up on a donation basis to take care of sanctuaries. There are people who will donate and have the money. So there is no excuse. It comes down to how much people will go out of their way to help a cause. All of the hate that goes into a comment to destroy something is so negative. Where is the compassion.

On December 5, 2007, Jay wrote:

OK…..I understand that everyone here is passionate about helping animals, and that is a good thing. I am passionate about wildlife (animals) and conservation, and protecting the earth in a natural state. People on this website seem to get so blinded and caught up in saving the individual. Sometimes focusing on the individual, and not populations as a whole is a very dangerous thing. By allowing individual cats to run feral, you are allowing them to completely decimate wild and native animal populations. Would anyone here agree it is a good thing to save 50 cats at the cost of an entire species? Because that’s what catch and release feral cat programs are about. One step ahead of you….here’s one of many examples. Look up San Clemente Island in CA. Feral cats destroyed this island, and the endangered loggerhead shrikes (and endemic island fox)were pushed to the brink. Feral cat control (lethal, trust me its the only option, unless bek and barbara are willing to adopt 10,000 cats) was initiated and the island is recovering, along with its endangered species that are found nowhere else in the world. Was that so bad? Kill a feral cat, save 20 cute and helpless endangered fox pups, now that sounds like a true friend of animals!
Note to blog editor…..you know I’m right!

On December 5, 2007, Lee Hall of Friends of Animals wrote:

What actually caused the decline of the loggerhead shrikes? Thousands of goats who were introduced by the the island’s ranching era destroyed much of the native habitat by grazing. It was not only cats but also the foxes you mention who ate these birds. Would you also argue for killing all the foxes?

On December 8, 2007, Teresa Poulson wrote:

I think the killing of feral cats is morally wrong

On December 9, 2007, Edna A wrote:

Jay,

Yes. It is a great thing that we are passionate about animals where other countries who have no regard for human rights are very brutal on their treatment of both domesticated and wildlife animals. Here, however, our opinions differ and neither I nor you can push each others opinions. My chosen cause is feral cats advocacy. I believe in no kill solutions, and I support TNR for many reasons.

I would like to comment on some of your statements:
1.) “People on this website seem to get so blinded and caught up in saving the individual. Sometimes focusing on the individual, and not populations as a whole is a very dangerous thing.”

My reply: You said that we are focusing on individual animals, then, how are we different from others who are focusing on wolves, on seals, on dolphins, on pitbulls, and other persecuted animals? How are feral cats differ from these animals and what do these animals share in common? You, people, seem to forget that cats are not the primary agent of extinction of many species of birds and wildlife animals, and there are so many wildlife animals (big and small) that have already gone extinct or in danger of extinction and cats have either minor or major or no involvement at all. Do you think these problems are not related? So, making such a general statement that cats are COMPLETELY DECIMATING wild and native populations is not only ignorance but no scientific basis. Predation of cats is very complex. Next time, be specific about which birds and which wild or native animals and where and list your sources. I would like to look into whatever reference you have. As for San Clemente Island, which according to you, has been destroyed by feral cats. Hah! Feral cats are not the only ones implicated as predator and a threat to ecosystem of San Clemente Island. Foxes also share the blame as well as feral goats and pigs. Feral goats and sheep were also implicated on habitat destruction of birds. As for island foxes, they have been endangered by the predation by golden eagles and human activities. So, why are you blaming the cats alone?

2.) “…catch and release feral cat programs are about.”

So, you are DIRECTLY holding TNR advocates responsible for feral cats’ predation? Illogical, don’t you think? The feral cats are returned to their original environment (that is familiar to them) the same way a caught
wild animal is returned back to the wild. How could feral cats advocacy groups be the ones releasing cats when their goals are to 1.) Eliminate or reduce homelessness of cats, 2.) To keep pet cats indoor, and 3.) Return only healthy, fixed, and vaccinated feral cats to their familiar environment and to the care of a designated caregiver who must be responsible for their food, healthcare, shelter, and other needs. When you used the word ‘release’ you seem to be suggesting we are no different from people who dump them and started out this huge problem of homelessness crisis in the first place. The problem of feral cats should be addressed socially, because this way we can come up with ideas that are not only humane but also long term and would benefit both feral and stray cats & wildlife. Cats may be an obligate carnivores but they are not the only predators. They are getting all the blame because of their huge number compared to wild larger predators. Even if feral cats were hypothetically out of the scene, we we still be having all these problems because they are all interconnected. Yes, we recognized that feral cats are a big problem but we find it logical to reduce their numbers through controlling their breeding and roaming as well confining pet cats indoor. Less cats, less predation on wildlife. Timed feeding (preferably daylight), supervised feeding, raised feeding station, removing food after the cats have eaten and cleaning the place prevented backyard wildlife from joining the feral cat colony.

Unfortunately, so many small cities around U.S. don’t have or very little funding for spay & neuter program, especially for cats. These are places where surgery and veterinary care is so high that desperate low income/fixed income people ended up abandoning/dumping cats. Vet clinics are also not profiting because of expensive supplies.

On December 10, 2007, Lauren wrote:

Ever think about also de-clawing feral cats when they are caught? This would highly reduce the number of birds they kill. Also this bill is for National Wildlife Refuges and federal lands, which take up a very small percentage of land in the U.S. and were set up in order to protect native and endangered species. I am taking the side of thousands of migratory birds that have been using refuge lands for a much longer time than non-native cats that were brought over from Africa that an irrisponsible human let escape into the wild. This bill will not by any means decimate the ferral cat population. The goverment is only trying to responsibly manage refuge lands for the species the were set up and designed to protect and one of those species is not ferral cats!

On December 10, 2007, Lee Hall of Friends of Animals wrote:

No, de-clawing cats is not an ethical option, any more than removing their teeth would be. We are advancing the idea of phasing out the colonies humanely and effectively by going to the root of the matter:

. neutering the cats who are born outside to abandoned parents

. providing them food to reduce the need for hunting free-living animals
. discouraging people from breeding cats generally, while ensuring the low-cost neutering of cats is widely available throughout the country

On December 10, 2007, Jay wrote:

This is getting a little jumbled……but I will try and provide the ecology/biology/conservation lesson. Yes goats may have contributed to the decline of the loggerhead shrike, but they were lethally removed, along with the cats. Problem solved. And yes, the golden eagle and island fox also contributed, but the shrike evolved to persist with this limited predation. Add the loss of habitat from the goats, and severe additive predation of the non-native cats, and you have too much to bear. So no, the foxes should not be removed, just the non-natives.

Edna- sweetheart you are a little confused….but I am here to help. You are VERY different from biologists that are attempting to save wolves or dolphins. They are not attempting to save every individual wolf, but populations. In fact, most wolf biologists endorse lethal control of depredating wolves. The goal is to support a healthy population. You are focusing on saving individual feral cats at the cost of native populations. I can guarantee you cat populations are not in danger anywhere in the world, not even in their native Africa (the only place they should be running wild). Lee- even though we disagree about cat control, I applaude you for advocating the phasing out of feral colonies. This is a step in the right direction, and definitely the long-term solution.

On December 12, 2007, Flo Saforo wrote:

How do you tell if the cat is feral or a neighbor’s cat out on a stroll. I tended to cats that were abandoned or just hurt, these cats shouldn’t be destroyed because humans decided to play “GOD.” Yes, I know there are some cats out there that are just bad news, but, most are just making the best of a bad deal.

What about the fact they keep down the rodent population, something as humans, we have failed at. Posion is not the solution always, my neighbor’s dog died from rat posion intended for rats.

Flo

On December 14, 2007, Edna A wrote:

Jay, I don’t know anything about wildlife management. Thank you for the info. about wolves. Actually, I was referring to the petition sent to me via email from Defenders of Wildlife and from my wolves lovers’ friends to save the endangered wolves from being gunned down by the Alaskan govt. Back to the feral cats….In my own perspective, I just don’t see it as feral cats vs native populations because the reasoning that we have to kill or eliminate a certain species in order to protect another species doesn’t sound natural to me. In Australia, they used lethal methods to kill feral cats in the wild and these methods were not only cruel but proven to be slow and ineffective. Some Aussie wildlife biologists have came up with ideas like 1.) collecting cat urine from cat owners and they covered themselves up with cat urine to train the native animals to fear feral cats, and 2.) to reintroduced dingos to kill or drive away feral cats. These ideas are to me natural, but of course more steps are needed, especially getting into all the roots of how this crisis started out. Also, I wonder, when you think of bird populations…do you make a distinction between a non native bird vs native bird? If an endangered non-native birds prey on endangered native birds, whose birds are you going to save and why? Just curious.

Yes, feral cats may never be an endangered animals anywhere in the world, even in many Asian countries (including my home country)where is a huge, highly profitable demands for cat/dog meat and their fur. Yet, that doesn’t give us moral justification to kill feral cats or deny their basic rights that came naturally to them. We do, however, have moral responsibility to protect all animals (native or not),after all, human beings are invasive higher animals who have already done so much irreparable damages to our animals and earth. I just simply could not understand why do we have to be divided over the issue of whose animals are worthy to save and who should die or eliminated. To me, using the defense “native vs invasive” is a dangerous thing because it is no different from other human categories like “natives vs aliens” or “immigrant vs illegal immigrant.”

As for your comment: “I can guarantee you cat populations are not in danger anywhere in the world, not even in their native Africa (the only place they should be running wild).” Actually, their ancestor, the African wildcats or Felis lybica are an endangered species and unlike the European wildcats, are not protected. According to Alley Cat Allies’s Alley Cat Rescue newsletter: “The main threats to all wildcats is the interbreeding with feral and domestic cats. Other threats include killing of cats by farmers for their poultry raiding habits, habitat and population fragmentation.” So, in order to save Felis lybica, Alley Cats Allies is planning to institute TNR programs in Africa where these very few wildcats are still living before they go extinct.


To Lauren, I don’t know anything specifically about the situation of feral cats in refuge land reserved for native and endangered species. So, the following ideas are just my own. I think this type of situation requires a collaboration among advocacy groups and recruitment of volunteers from the community to educate their neighbors, families and friends about the negative consequences of dumping cats in the wild. There will be people (living nearby the refuge land)that are not going to care, but if they are given some kind of incentives to have their cats sterilized and keep them indoor or in cat enclosures or to report anyone dumping cat, they will certainly act responsibly. Lastly, I am assuming that fencing the reserves has already been considered to keep out feral cats?

On December 26, 2007, LAURA wrote:

I agree each and every one of Edna comments. Remember we are humans with free will and brains and we are all put on this earth for a reason. Not to destroy but embrace. But we are the one with the brains, let’s be contructive not destructive. Humans have done enough destruction and future generations will be paying for it. Getting rid of or elimating live species is very easy for us humans, even compassion has been eliminated. Eliminating living, breathing life of this earth is not the way to have worldly peace.

Let’s find contructive ways of saving the world.

On January 7, 2008, Peter Hood wrote:

As usual, man’s first avenue of action seems to default to the want to “destroy” in order to conveniently and swiftly “solve” a problem. How depressing, that this “expertise” and “experience” of lawmakers cannot yield more reasoned, coherent, and competent protocols for dealing with wildlife management issues. The same effort that is being utilized to slip this disgrace through congress should be marshalled to supporting a compassionate and reasonable solution. Spay/Neuter/Return initiatives deserve the support of all, including institutional/government support. These programs are reasonable, compassionate, and moral— there should be no argument regarding thier implementation.

On January 7, 2008, Fabiano Muner wrote:

Once again, we humans view anything that cannot be made to bend to our will as a “nuisance” ,”pest”, etc. This is simply the cheap and “easy” solution to the problem. I agree with the views of some of the other posts here, blaming a cat for a problem that we humans have caused is ludicrous!

On February 5, 2008, bastet wrote:

This idea makes me very sick to my stomache. I really think it stems down to people who don’t take the responsibility in the first place when they decide to take a cat in for a pet and then out in the streets you go to defend yourself in this cat unfriendly world without cat food so what do they do that comes natural to them they hunt or they’d starve what would you do dave or anyone backing him up. This is from a bird lover as well your just looking for an excuse. Cats are very special. I sure hope you take into consideration that yes cats are part of gods plan. cat hunting is the worst idea ever. I know their not perfect but what is really?

On January 23, 2010, wendy wrote:

Who’s going to regulate which cats are feral and which cats are stray from the neighborhoods?

I for one have already run into this problem with a neighbor who decided she had the right to make those decisions and she and her husband were shooting every stray cat that they could see from their backyard because these cats might go after the squirrels that they feed in their yard. They shot my indoor cat one afternoon when I took him out in my backyard to eat grass while I trimmed my roses. the neighbor couldn’t see me nor I him and they assumed my elderly cat was feral. I tried to get them prosecuted but to no avail. Now they only shoot when they think I’m not home.

On November 10, 2010, Diana Dibblee wrote:

My elderly mother feeds stray cats by her apt in Mt. Morris, Illinois. There is a family of 15 that she feeds. She was served an eviction notice for feeding them. My sister and I decided to trap the cat family, have them spayed/neutered then taken to my sister’s farm to house them. They aren’t feral but won’t let us touch them. A feral group came to assess the situation and decided since the cats came running up to us they weren’t feral and wouldn’t offer us any assistance. So we are doing it on our own paying $85 for spay and $50 for neuter. It’s so expensive we are struggling. Does anyone know any group that could offer assistance or send us to a cheaper vet? Have caught 5 so far but the rest are getting too wise to be trapped. Cross your fingers for us.

On November 10, 2010, marie ansari wrote:

Diane, you are right that any cat who is being supported with food and shelter out-of-doors needs to be sterilized. The greatest stress on a community cat is going through the reproductive process. Cats being fed without spay/neuter have larger litters, adding to the burden of the colony to struggle for survival. The majority of complaints that come from residents are connected to the negative behaviors of cats’ mating. The yowling and fighting of the male cats, the strong urine smell of their marking, seeing kittens struggling for survival, watching cats lose muscle tone and weight from nurturing kittens, competition for food, etc. are all corrected with spay/neuter. Many complaining residents will come around to accepting the maintenance of outside cats, if they understand this is the most humane method of population control. It’s amazing how docile and healthy they will become even shortly after sterilizing. Cats will keep rodent population down, and the feeding and care of them gives life a meaning for many residents who feel compassion for the cats. Regardless of what anyone says, the kill-rate for cats picked up from such a situation is 100% With our ability to give nonlethal and humane alternatives, there is no reason cats are being moved from the area they live in.

I don’t understand why the group can’t offer you low-cost spay/neuter/vaccinate. Feral isn’t a bad word! It only means that the cat is wary of humans, but commonly will approach the caregiver with great attention and affection! The fact that the cats came up to you does not make them high on the list for adoptions at most rescue facilities. The system is already tremendously overburdened with unwanted cats and kittens, and healthy felines are being killed everyday in every so-called shelter and pound in this country.

If you move them, please read up on how to make the relocation successful. The cats must be contained in their new location, perhaps in a tack room or other holding area, with their food and water, so they recognize that this is their new food source. Holding time should be no less than 2 weeks, and up to 4 is better. If there are existing cats there, be very aware that they might fight for food so setting up several, scattered feeding stations is recommended. The more assertive cats will come to feed first, often leaving the shyer ones on the perimeter. If the caregiver isn’t aware of this, it would not be unusual for the kitties to starve to death or wander off looking for food.

I will email you separately with suggestions for finding low-cost options for spay/neuter. I’m sorry your mom has to lose her cats, and thank you for stepping up to be responsible for them.